Beitzah 28a

 

1- We continued to discuss the story of the ‘missing fish’.

It seems that R’ Chiya took extra fish without Rebi’s or Reb Shimon’s permission. It turned out that Reb Shimon didn’t mind it. But at the time that this occurred  Reb Shimon was not aware that R’ Chiya took it.

 

So how did R’ Chiya take it?

There is a general question if one may take an object without permission when he knows that the owner does not mind.

 

Meaning that at the moment of him taking it the owner is not aware that it is being taken, but he will not make an issue of it when he finds out that it was taken.

 

We learnt the text of the Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch (#4), and the קונטרס אחרון.

 

The  ש”ך rules that one may take an object without permission when he knows that the owner will not mind.

 

The Alter Rebbe argues on the ש”ך and prohibits to take an object without permission even if he sure that the owner, when he finds out, will not mind.

 

2- Here is some background and how it relates to our Gemara:

 

Tosfos in Bava Metzia (22a, D”H Mar Zutra, cited by the Shach 358:1) writes that one is not permitted to take something from another person without explicit   permission, even when he knows that the other person will not object. (It is considered יאוש שלא מדעת – – which does not have the status of יאוש – לא הוי יאוש.).

Other ראשונים (and the Shach) argue on Tosfos and permit it.

Now our Gemara, where R’ Chiya took the fish, seems to side with the opinion that one is indeed permitted to take such object.

So how will Tosfos and the Alter Rebbe explain our story?

We suggested that perhaps Rashi’s words imply that Rebbi merely left the fish in a place where he normally left things for any of the Talmidim to take; he did not specifically designate the fish for Rebbi Chiya. Accordingly, Rebbi Chiya, who was one of the Talmidim, had permission to take it even though Rebbi did not give it specifically to him.

3- We continued the Alter Rebbe’s ruling (#5) on the giving of צדקה by a spouse prior to asking her husband’s permission…

Generally, as long as the sum is what is considered ‘normal’ and such is the מנהג there is no issue.

4- We continued to the next Mishna concerning the sharpening of knives on Yom Tov.

 

5- Our Gemara discusses the dispute between the Chachomim who prohibit sharpening and Rab Yuhuda who permits it.

 

This is the classic case of the מחלוקת אודות מכשירי אוכל נפש. Work performed in the preparation of the preparation of food. Such as sharpening a knife to schecht.

 

Shechting itself is the preparation. Sharpening is the preliminary work done prior to the actual preparation of the food.

[For the definition as to what constitutes מלאכת אוכל נפש versus מכשירין see here in a rather lengthy קונטרס אחרון of the Alter Rebbe which we discussed at an earlier shiur]

Although the Halacha is like Reb Yuhuda, and one is permitted to sharpen a knife (on anything but a stone), a Rov should not explicitly rule this Halocho.

הלכה ואין מורין כן

But what if he is asked what to do?

We read the words of the Alter Rebbe that brings proof from our Gemara that the Rov should rule like….the Chachomim!!!!

See here.

 

.